[Kim Daesik & Kim Hyeyeon's AHA] Does It Have to Be a 'Human Body' to Be 'Dance'?

③Asked Korea's Leading Contemporary Choreographers

Will AI Advancement Affect Dance?
Will Dance Still Exist a Thousand Years from Now?

Editor's NoteAsia Economy has decided to explore, from the perspectives of engineers and artists, how the rapidly advancing generative AI will bring changes to the field of artistic creation and what 'humans' should contemplate. Accordingly, we have prepared a monthly corner where Professor Kim Dae-sik of KAIST's Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist) engage in dialogues or discussions about artistic creators and works. The title 'AHA' in the corner stands for 'AI, Human & Art'. Through Professor Kim Dae-sik, who passionately explores the future of generative AI, and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon, who boldly integrates generative AI with dance, we hope you take a step closer to the profound themes of AI, humans, and art.

Professor Kim Dae-sik, choreographers Kim Bo-ra, Lim Jin-ho, Jang Hye-rim, Kim Bo-ram, and Kim Hye-yeon (from left in the photo) are having a discussion on the 3rd at 'Tirobotics Rehabilitation RoboLab' in Gangnam-gu, Seoul. Photo by Jo Yong-jun jun21@

Generative AI has deeply entered the realms of creation and creativity, causing new ripples from the perspective of the fusion of art and technology. Amid this, what can humans do? Especially, what direction do choreographers take in this era? As AI technology rapidly spreads to the public and predictions about the realization of AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) are near, we aim to discover new insights with Korea's top choreographers. By examining not only technology but also the essential aspects such as the body, emotions, and senses, we seek solutions regarding the value and meaning of the 'body' in the era of art and technology.

-When humans create art, they usually use tools?brushes, mice, sculpting tools, and so on. However, dance is unique in that the artist themselves is simultaneously the tool. This is a characteristic not found in any other art form. The human body is an unchanging 'tool' regardless of era, and its functions have not significantly changed from 300,000 years ago to now. In this context, how might technological advancements impact dance? In other art fields, technology greatly influences artistic expression and identity, but is that also true for dance?

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ram = I feel technology is advancing very rapidly. In this era where all kinds of creative works are being generated, we are not just looking at the final products but have access to increasingly more information. However, the speed and scale of these changes can sometimes be overwhelming, making me want to deliberately step away. Especially, while generative AI can create paintings, in the field of dance where the body is the tool, there is still no way to respond. If robot technology advances further and robots capable of actual movement appear, I think we might feel the need to choreograph together with them.

▲Choreographer Lim Jin-ho = I was quite bad at dancing. But I really like how when a tool meets my body, it shows a completely different dimension. This is also why I am currently active as a choreographer. Many choreographers use actual tools (props) in their works besides the body, the basic tool of dance. I enjoy feeling how my body changes when it meets a tool and plays with it. For example, new tools like robots equipped with AI are continuously developing. If I get a chance to meet such a robot, I want to explore how my body changes while playing with it. So, I think my starting point might be a bit different from others because I had to find and develop my strengths to survive.

"If robots capable of movement appear, we might have to choreograph with them"
"I want to explore how body, technology, and matter interact"

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ra = Among my choreographic works, there is one using a piano as an object. Some audience members called the piano a member like a dancer after seeing that work. I contemplate how the body interacting with the piano as an object relates as a subject in choreography. This is because focusing on an attitude that can speak equally about the existence of the body and the piano is important. I believe we need to find and attempt ways to let go of the human-centered perspective in dance. What I want to say going forward is that when humans and the piano meet, I pursue works that express their existence through their relationship (movement).

Just as technology evolves, the body also changes and evolves. There is a temporal difference between the two. Nevertheless, I believe technology and the body should not just meet as tools but blend with each other. Previously, the phrase 'the body is a tool' might have been thought of simply, but now its meaning expands to a concept larger than matter or objects. Because the body exists, various relationships form, and new things are born within those relationships. Through this process, I want to continue exploring how the body, technology, and matter blend and interact with each other.

▲Choreographer Jang Hye-rim = I often feel it is difficult to keep up with the rapid development of technology. On the other hand, my husband, who is a ballet dancer, finds all this technological progress very interesting. He reads books related to AI, experiments with new tools, and shows me fascinating things and talks about them. But I am interested in a different direction. Recently, I have been reading books about Canadian Indigenous peoples and immersing myself more deeply in primal stories. I even try to communicate with trees, exploring connections with nature. Even though we both create art with the body as the subject, we go in such different ways depending on preferences and tastes.

Photo by Jo Yongjun jun21@

-Currently, we are experiencing an extension of the body due to the development of civilization. Like wearing glasses, what do you think about the possibility that technological advances can overcome the physical limits of our bodies? For example, if technology advances so that robots can replace the human body, would you be willing to use such technology to realize movements beyond physical limits? And if a time comes when robots surpass humans due to infinite stamina and enhanced functions, would you want to use that technology to create art, or do you think exploring movement within human physical limits is the true essence of dance? Although this is a question from the realm of imagination, it would greatly help to understand your personal preferences and philosophical views as artists.

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ram = I definitely do not want such technology. Although I am getting older and things that were possible when I was young are becoming more difficult, I find that challenge more interesting. Finding ways to develop even as the body weakens is the most fascinating part of dancing for me these days. People who don't dance might want such technology, but I love my body, so I don't find it very appealing.

▲Choreographer Jang Hye-rim = I am more interested in other imaginations than changing the body. My child is now five years old and loves the robot cartoon Hello Carbot. Its quality is excellent, comparable to Transformers. Among regular robot toys, there is none that attaches to the human body and actually flies, but children imagine that it is possible and want such robot toys. Watching robot cartoons with my child, I feel the emotion from the content and movements. So, if a robot could express not just functional movement but also soul or mind like a human, as a choreographer, I think there would be points I want to approach. But I am not very interested in attaching something to my body yet. I just have a curiosity about flying in the sky.

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ra = I am curious and very eager to work with robots. I have actually worked with them. But I do not want to become a transhuman. When I explore these technologies and themes in choreography, I think it is important that technological enhancement does not control the body but that they can coexist, and also reveal critical insights about their relationship. Above all, if art can make people reflect on themselves and reconsider their precious current bodies, I believe we should move toward a post-human direction while preserving deeper humanistic essence. I recently rewatched the movie 'Her,' which gave me a great impression from a post-human perspective. If I apply this post-human direction to choreography, I want to face any challenge.

An image created by entering the command "Generate a scene of Koreans and artificial intelligence dancing intensely" into ChatGPT. ChatGPT described that they are dancing under neon lights in a futuristic city setting, reflecting an energetic night scene.

-Facing physical and cognitive limits as one ages is common in all fields. As choreographers, how do you experience changes in your body as you age?

▲Choreographer Lim Jin-ho = I first feel a big change in how I use my body over time. Using the same energy, in the past, I was satisfied only when I was completely exhausted after a performance, having poured everything out. Now, I can achieve similar effects without excessively consuming energy. It's like improved fuel efficiency. Similarly, compared to the past when I choreographed many movements that overused the body, I no longer force unnecessary movements. With experience, I am finding more efficient and economical movements. This is the most valuable lesson I have learned through time.

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ra = It seems natural that we feel physical and mental changes as we age. Over time, I become more sensitive to these changes, and I interpret this as a change in perception. I do not see this as mere sensitivity but rather as an opportunity to recognize that every person's body is different. Even comparing the bodies of Professor Kim Dae-sik, choreographer Kim Hye-yeon, and other choreographers here, each is different, and the reactions from the same movement differ. Recognizing this diversity is important. Therefore, understanding and communicating with the body's limits is essential for dancing.

-In fact, many creators feel lost about what to do when given perfect freedom. If all your conditional limitations disappeared, is there a work you would definitely want to create? Is there a long-held dream work you want to achieve?

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ram = I've joked for a long time that I dream of collaborating with Elon Musk, and I am very interested in SpaceX. If Mars migration becomes a reality, I hope the first migration celebration is a dance. The dance there would be completely different from Earth's dance. Since it's so far, if we can't go, I think by then we could choreograph more advanced robots and send them.

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ra = I want to choreograph the dance of microorganisms. It might sound odd, but microorganisms coexist within our bodies. In the process of finding human essence, if we dig deeply until our forms disappear, microorganisms remain. There is an interesting case: when luminous microorganisms and hairy microorganisms exist, if the hairy microorganisms eat the luminous ones, the hairy microorganisms also emit light. Then, I wonder if they become one or remain two. I consider this symbiosis. Choreographing the dance of microorganisms can well represent the essence of symbiosis and show endless change and evolution through dance. Through this process, I want to explore infinite possibilities through dance that continuously changes into new matter.

"Dance on Mars will be completely different from Earth's dance"
"I also want to choreograph the dance of microorganisms"

▲Choreographer Lim Jin-ho = Mathematicians say everything in the world can be reduced to numbers. From a choreographer's perspective, I thought everything should be seen through choreography. Everything contains movement, and even small units like atoms move. From this viewpoint, choreography is not limited to body movement. In Chinese characters, 'Anmu' (choreography) has 'An' meaning to pull water and 'Mu' meaning dance. Assuming everything in the world is movement and wave and all are dancers, choreography can be seen as the role of coordinating and organizing all this. The choreographer is both coordinator and conductor. Interestingly, movements at the quantum level start to entangle and influence each other. I think the end of choreography is the stage of controlling and coordinating all these movements.

▲Choreographer Jang Hye-rim = Since tradition is my base, I often think about time and space. For example, I often wonder how things were in the past. Recently, while working, I read a book called 'Braiding Sweetgrass,' which tells the story of a Canadian Indigenous ecologist and scientist. It made me think that what we believed to be the soul might actually be scientifically proven communication, like conversations between trees. So, exploring communication with nature, connecting traditional concepts with modern science, and discovering new possibilities within is the work I want to pursue.

From the top left of the photo clockwise: choreographers Kim Bora, Im Jin-ho, Kim Boram, Jang Hyerim.

-Director Kim Tae-yong, the first guest of 'AHA,' often thinks that movies may not be eternal. Beyond the technology of film, he explained that the social interaction of people gathering to watch together was the core of cinema. But nowadays, we mostly watch movies alone. What about dance? Will it still exist a thousand years from now?

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ra = I don't think living things naturally exist. I believe existence comes from actions arising between people. As long as all these relationships do not disappear, dance will not disappear. Therefore, I think the scope of dance is very broad, and I believe dance will be eternal.

▲Choreographer Jang Hye-rim = Dance seems to be a human instinct. Children naturally respond to music or sounds with movements without being taught. I think this is a human instinct. Even if it's not technical dance, expressing emotions or messages through movement before words is a fundamental human expression. So, I believe dance will be eternal. I don't think this instinctive expression can be suppressed.

▲Choreographer Lim Jin-ho = I also think it will be eternal. I agree. No objections.

▲Choreographer Kim Bo-ram = I also think dance will be eternal. I don't know how it will be interpreted or exist, but as I said earlier, dance exists as it is seen. AI is advancing rapidly, but among all things, dance might be the hardest for AI to understand. Even humans find it difficult to fully understand dance. AI learns through logic and data, but dance is expressed through emotion and instinct, so it would be difficult for AI to fully comprehend it.

Professor Kim Dae-sik, Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, KAIST

Choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist)

Choreographer Kim Bo-ra

Artistic director of 'Art Project Bora.' Kim Bo-ra said, “I am very interested in posthumanism and feminism,” adding, “Exploring how these themes create our existence and how those actions are realized is fascinating work for me.”

Choreographer Lim Jin-ho

A choreographer and dancer active in 'Goblin Party.' He constantly explores challenges of finding and fitting together things that seem unlikely to roll well, like triangles and squares. Lim Jin-ho emphasized, “I feel joy in solving these, and I call this process 'choreography.'”

Choreographer Jang Hye-rim

Artistic director of 'Ninetynine Art Company.' Jang Hye-rim believes that the body should not be seen simply as a physical body but that it contains spirit and soul. She strives to create dances that resonate with that soul and focuses on drawing out stories within the human interior.

Choreographer Kim Bo-ram

Artistic director of Ambiguous Dance Company and well known as the choreographer of 'Beom Naeryeonda (Leenalchi).' Kim Bo-ram believes that human art and creative activities ultimately happen 'to dance.' She said, “My team and I are united by love and passion for dance itself, nothing more, nothing less.”