[Kim Daesik & Kim Hyeyeon's AHA] The Future Envisioned by Song Gilyoung, Featuring the 'Improving Individual' as the Protagonist

⑦ 'Mind Miner' Author Song Gil-young

Editor's NoteAsia Economy has decided to explore, from the perspectives of engineers and artists, what changes generative AI?advancing day by day?will bring to the field of artistic creation, and what 'people' should contemplate. Accordingly, we have prepared a monthly corner where Professor Kim Dae-sik of KAIST's Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist) either hold dialogues with artists or discuss works. The title of the corner, 'AHA,' stands for 'AI, Human & Art.' Through Professor Kim Dae-sik, who passionately explores the future of generative AI, and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon, who boldly integrates generative AI with dance, we hope you take a step closer to the profound themes of AI, humans, and art.

Composite image of writer Song Gil-young and an image created with 'DALL-E3' / Photo by Kim Hyun-min, Illustration by Editor Choo Myung-hoon. kimhyun81@

Excavating the human mind to look into our past and present and foresee the future. This is ultimately what writer Song Gil-young, who comes to mind when thinking of 'big data,' aims to do. If so, the 'map of the mind' he draws might become a meaningful compass in a rapidly changing world and society. In an era where AI itself becomes human life, where does the compass he proposes point, and what advice does it offer on how to live? Song’s answer seems to lie in the self and you?that is, the 'individual' who is independent with unique competitiveness.

-Your business card introduces you as a 'mind miner.' Usually, you are called a 'writer.' What does this mean?

▲I work on excavating people's minds from the traces they leave behind. I defined this as 'mining mind.' Furthermore, I want to introduce myself as someone who observes the changes in collective consensus and tries to grasp the spirit of our times. I worked at a company for 30 years. But entering the 29th and 30th years, I began to wonder whether I had been happy all along.

At that time, I wrote a book titled Era Forecast: The Age of the Core Individual, and on the day it was published, I quit the company. Since I was talking about social change, I thought I should live that kind of life myself. This time, I have published my fourth book. I have been writing books for over ten years, and if this is what I like, I thought I should make it my profession.

Song Gil-young (far left) is having a conversation with choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (center) and Professor Kim Dae-sik (far right) at a cafe in Seocho-gu, Seoul, on the 9th. Photo by Kim Hyun-min kimhyun81@

-After leaving the company, it seems you renewed your thoughts about life and people.

▲I started a company with colleagues. Seniors and juniors gathered with the idea of 'let’s try to change society together.' But at some point, I felt 'this is just a formality.' I learned a lot from my colleagues, but I got more inspiration from meeting people outside and appreciating artworks.

Through this, I realized that the form of work can be diverse, and there are many forms other than the corporate structure. In the past, when life spans were short, entering and leaving one organization was the end, and the mindset that organizations were superior to individuals prevailed. But companies today are not like before. Innovation continues, and mergers and splits happen constantly. Also, humans live longer. So now everyone feels that individuals are more important than organizations.

It goes like this: I tried everything at my first job. Then I try again at the second job. Then the third. Connecting these processes forms the whole life. So now, life in a specific organization is a small part of life, and the way individuals work has become more important. It’s augmented. I think society will increasingly call individuals by their own names. This idea is reflected in my book Era Forecast: The Society of Core Individuals.

Song Gil-young / Photo by Kim Hyun-min kimhyun81@

-In Korea, people tend to place great importance on a person’s career, background, birth city, and alma mater. It seems society still accepts phrases like 'Back in my day' or 'When I was young.' What are your thoughts on this characteristic?

▲I think it’s a conflict between collective thinking and the ideology of viewing the individual as whole. There are various interpretations. Fundamentally, Korean society is very dynamic. There have been many wars, and above all, the experience of colonial rule caused existing vested interests to collapse and new opportunities to arise frequently.

Those who received more education and played social roles benefited first. Thus, we developed a fantasy that people with more prestigious academic backgrounds would produce better results. In the U.S., they began to verify individuals’ abilities regardless of academic background. Above all, it’s not about selling potential but selling ability. Regardless of how it’s expressed, if you have ability, you can fulfill your unique role. We have entered such an era.

Not Selling Potential but Ability: Data as an Observation Journal to Understand People

-You seem to obsessively collect data about our society and, on the other hand, profile it. Since some major incidents and trends are unfolding, profiling through data might be necessary. Some might think our society is not very healthy. How do you see this?

▲It started with resolving discrepancies. For example, why doesn’t a product sell? Why is the consumer dissatisfied? Naturally, efforts to understand and solve these issues were necessary. At that time, data was used as a means. Later, I couldn’t help but look into reckless dependence on academic background or the origins of conflicts and lack of trust in our lives.

So naturally, I began observing various social phenomena and diverse conflict patterns among people. Going further, I thought about leaving records of these concerns and thoughts. In anthropology, people keep observation journals to understand others. There must be reasons why their lives turned out this way, and leaving a record of customs allows future scholars to look back and understand their own paths. From this perspective, I can cautiously say I am 'leaving records without a specific goal.'

Kim Daesik and Kim Hyeyeon's AHA Dialogue_ Big data expert and author Song Gilyoung is having a dialogue with Professor Kim Daesik and choreographer Kim Hyeyeon at a cafe in Seoul on the 9th. Photo by Hyunmin Kim kimhyun81@

-Leaving records is truly important. When we leave something, there must be a target or goal?whether descendants, future selves, or AI inheriting human civilization. From this viewpoint, 100 or 200 years from now, will the future anthropological research based on all the data you are collecting be conducted by humans or machines?

▲Interesting thought. It might be so. When we first started this work, we received much help from people whose work was qualitative. But since we didn’t have that level of experience or scale, we took an approach of looking at the whole and accumulating data, which allowed us to see much further.

This method is called ethnography. It is a qualitative research method where one participates in an ethnic group bound by a culture to vividly interpret the meaning of their daily experiences. Then we realized many people had already done observations. So we thought we should contribute in this area as well. Our purpose is not only for now but also to leave something for future generations living in the world.

-There is a philosophical question today. Some say ChatGPT only experienced the world through language symbols, so it does not represent the real world. Others say, by scale laws, most phenomena become symbols, so trained data compresses reality. This means ChatGPT understands reality beyond text. What do you think?

▲I think it’s a kind of aesthetic appreciation of absolute values. Our thinking system is not expressed only in language. I believe it is impossible to fully recognize that no matter how much we try. However, how much what I feel, perceive, and sense can be conveyed to others is something scholars like professors should research.

Another important point is that in current issues, when trying to entrust imitation work to humans, it was insufficient. We can also observe that humans lack the amount of experience and understanding of the world. For example, in the past, crying babies were often seen in restaurants. Since everyone had children, the social atmosphere was to understand other children crying.

Separation and Conflict Between 'Self' and 'Others': Anxiety Must Be Erased Through Complete Independence

But recently, with birth rates hitting record lows, experiences with children have decreased or are absent, or many have no plans to have children, so involvement with children is disappearing. Therefore, we can observe that other people’s lives are separating from mine.

I recently heard a shocking story: a mother boarding a plane with her baby handed out candy to passengers. She wanted to apologize in advance because the baby might cry. This phenomenon of people who have never lived together clashing is dangerous. Not only does empathy decrease, but if people keep fragmenting, they become unhappy. To relieve anxiety, individuals must achieve complete independence.

-Recently emerging multi-modal generative AI avatars form relationships that seem to truly reassure and understand individuals. In human history, no one has listened to an individual’s worries anytime, anywhere, without objections. Many worry about fake news about AI, but perhaps the greatest concern is that humans might be able to be happy without other humans in the AI era, threatening humanity itself.

▲Psychologists talk a lot about this. For example, there are two farmers. One needs to borrow an axe, the other a plow. They borrow and lend, so they endure and care for each other. But if money is involved, it goes like this: “Just pay when borrowing the axe or buy it.”

Then they stop helping each other. As a result, they grow distant, become isolated, and eventually lonely. Scholars say our goal is not just to achieve goals but to find comfort through relationships and maintain connections. Ultimately, those who treat me well become lifelong benefactors, while those who treat me badly get treated badly in return.

Kim Dae-sik and Kim Hye-yeon's AHA Dialogue_ Big data expert and author Song Gil-young is having a conversation with Professor Kim Dae-sik and choreographer Kim Hye-yeon at a cafe in Seoul on the 9th. Photo by Hyunmin Kim kimhyun81@

-People who have found independent selves and are doing what they want, at least in their 30s, 40s, and even 20s, do not worry. But today’s teenagers worry about how to live in the AI era. It will take more than ten years for generative AI to impact society and jobs. That’s when today’s teenagers will enter the workforce. They might have to compete with AI even to gain opportunities to build careers. What attitude should they have in the AI era?

▲They say the era of 'selection' is ending. The old system was about being chosen. A person’s fate was decided in a day, and if rejected, they immediately moved on to something else. Korean society still believes university entrance exams change lives. But that’s no longer true. Data shows it was true before, but now it’s different.

Now you can do YouTube. You can do other things. If you blog every day for three or five years, people like it, respond, and if it expands into work, that’s a small success. So instead of living by old methods or fixed characters, people are proving their lives themselves.

Thanks to this, individual lives can be seen as moving more slowly. We develop ourselves until our customers and readers recognize who we are. The good thing is that compared to before, there is more generosity. Technology has democratized, and individual expression has diversified. The downside is that we must keep improving?today’s me must be better than yesterday’s me.

Professor Kim Dae-sik, Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, KAIST

Choreographer Kim Hye-yeon (CEO of Yeonist)