[Side B] "The Park Won-soon Sexual Harassment Allegation Case Must Be Reflected Upon from a Feminist Perspective" - Bunumi's Lee Seong-gyeong and Eunju

A Proud Minority for a Better Non-Mainstream World

Mom Feminism Study Group 'Buneomi'
Publishes Second Book 'Is Your Sex Equal?'

Stories About Relationships with Husbands
Are Parenting Couples Truly Equal?

Buneomi members regularly gather to engage in various activities together. There are Buneomi who write by themselves, Buneomi who read books related to feminism, and Buneomi who hike or take walks. Buneomi members. (Provided by Buneomi)

[Asia Economy Reporter Lee Hyun-joo] Is 'remaining single' and 'not having children' the only alternative to realizing feminism? Can one not be a feminist if they marry and have children?

Here are feminists who say "No, that's not the case." Women who are married and raising children have come together to create their own feminist language. The group of married feminists called 'Buneomi,' which gained attention with their first book 'Do Feminists Get Married?', has released their second book, 'Is Your Sex Equal?'. This book is a collection of writings by mothers participating in Buneomi.

Buneomi is a modified term from 'Buneomi (Buneomgi),' which means a small hill inside a furnace. Buneomi plays a role in preventing smoke from flowing back when lighting a fire in the furnace and warming the heated floor. It symbolizes the desire to contribute to feminism not flowing backward but being naturally accepted in our society. We recently met with Buneomi leaders Lee Seong-gyeong and Eun-ju at the Asia Economy newspaper office.

=The death of former Seoul Mayor Park Won-soon seems to have left a task for those remaining to solve.

Lee Seong-gyeong When people asked if a man could be a feminist, I used to cite former Mayor Park Won-soon as a role model, so I felt uneasy. We must acknowledge his many achievements. However, the system he built did not function properly, and we need to move toward productive discussions on what can be improved to prevent such incidents from recurring. Regardless of who holds that position, any organization can have power relations based on authority, so this is not a unique problem. It is more about power issues within the organization than about Park Won-soon personally. Those in power must reflect more strictly on their positionality. Speaking of power positionality, as a mother, I often think about this. Women are socially vulnerable and targets of hatred, but mothers hold absolute power over their children. The power of a mother controls and dominates the child. This power is naturally acquired through childbirth and often goes unnoticed, but it exists within that relationship. Just as no one complains when a mother yells at her child, "Hey, hurry up!", if one does not self-reflect, using power becomes too convenient. I hope we now examine the power structures where violence by power occurs and move toward reflecting on authority throughout society. Instead of regressing by denying women's labor rights, such as saying secretaries should not be women, I hope discussions will focus on establishing labor relations as equal people without gender discrimination. Incidents like this happening in Seoul City, which has all gender equality systems and institutions, undermine public trust.

Eun-ju We should not dismiss sexual crimes as 'just such things' to praise the deceased's achievements or merits. I believe the older generation's tendency to minimize sexual harassment as 'just such things' ultimately created figures like Son Jung-woo and Cho Ju-bin. The coming generation lives in the era of feminism. Those who cannot accept the feminist era will inevitably be left behind. This incident marks the end of that older generation and the need for generational change. On the other hand, I was angry to see female politicians' public statements being reframed into private matters and belittled with the label 'young women,' attacking their personal dignity. It made me realize that female lawmakers' remarks are still not recognized in reality.

=What motivated you to create and participate in Buneomi?

Lee Seong-gyeong I was someone who did not even know the 'fe' in feminism. In fact, I had some aversion to feminism, thinking it was somewhat strange. After graduating from university, I worked in traditional architecture, and although I was the only woman in the company, I did not feel discriminated against because I was a woman. I worked just like the men on site. I met my husband at work, and until just before childbirth, our schedules were the same 24 hours a day. After giving birth, I constantly became aware that I was a woman. Even though I wanted to share breastfeeding and childbirth with my husband, I had to do it alone, and when I tried to return to work, there was no one to take care of the child. At a time when there were many news reports about child abuse, I had to choose between work and my child. However, my husband, even after becoming a father, did not have to worry about such things. One day, while parking with my husband, we argued. There was an inexperienced driver, and my husband started by saying, "Ah, that ajumma..." I told him to stop because the ajumma hearing it would feel bad. Then he snapped, "Kim Mrs. is like a proper noun; why are you so sensitive? Are you a feminist?" I had no answer. I thought it was a reasonable challenge to prejudice, but it made me curious. Was my husband's question about being a feminist wrong or not? That led me to become interested in feminism. I attended many meetings, but there were many talks about remaining single and not having children, so I faced limitations. Since I was already married and had children, I knew our perspectives were different. I am neither a theorist nor an activist, so I cannot engage in political activities, but I thought about changing life by writing our stories.

Members of Sseuneun Buneomi write posts and share stories online. They try to meet once a month. Activity scenes of Sseuneun Buneomi. (Provided by Buneomi)

Eun-ju I recall the scene of holding my baby in the dark night, looking at the bright screen of my phone. I read a piece written by Lee Seong-gyeong. I also had a son, and it was a letter to her son as a feminist. It was during the peak of the feminism and Megalia craze. I minored in women's studies at university and was very interested in social issues, attending candlelight rallies without fail, but I found it hard to follow the Megalia debates. It felt different from the feminism I knew. Reading the writings of young people, I thought they were very smart, and I thought I could no longer keep up. At that moment, I applied to join Buneomi. Despite many issues, I sent a message saying I wanted to study together. I had many things I wanted to say inside, but it was difficult to write. Perhaps I was suffering because I did not know where or how to start. It was overwhelming to realize I did not know what to say, but through writing in Buneomi meetings and publishing a book, I was able to express myself after much reflection.

=After the first book, the second book also contains stories that were difficult to talk about. What is the focus of this book?

Lee Seong-gyeong Married women's stories about sex usually happen only in places like 'mom cafes.' For example, "I don't want to have sex, but my husband wants it," or "I feel guilty for not having sex just one month after giving birth." I saw people who could not satisfy even their basic appetites, sleep, or bowel needs seriously using collective intelligence to discuss their husband's sexual desires. Husbands should be the ones thinking about how to help with childcare so their wives have energy to revive their sexual desire, but they do not. Husbands do not think about what they can do to increase their wives' sexual satisfaction despite their wives' physical struggles after childbirth. It is very unequal. Women undergo significant physical changes due to childbirth, but there is no social concern, while men's sexual desires are confidently and justifiably guaranteed, which is humiliating. This book is about relationships with husbands. The topic is sex, and it explores how to build equal and balanced relationships with husbands. Women's premarital sexual experiences are taboo and not publicly discussed, and after marriage, it is considered inappropriate to talk about sex within the family. While there has been much discussion about housework division and childcare, sex has been a topic rarely discussed.

Patriarchy makes it difficult for men to escape gender role stereotypes
Feminism seeks ways for everyone to live well without injustice
All choices should be respected
A society where one's will and agency are respected

Eun-ju I initially said I probably had nothing to write about because I live without sex and am asexual (laughs). My husband and I had agreed not to have any sexual relations. I thought we did not have sex because we fulfilled our desires mentally through conversation. However, during the writing process, I felt I needed to talk more about our relationship with my husband. I wondered if I earned more money than my husband and thus held more power, or if there was no problem but my husband just did not speak up. I wondered if a power dynamic had unknowingly formed between us. What I realized while writing was that I pretended to know about sex without really knowing and never tried to learn. Rather than resenting not being taught, I did not even try to find out. Talking with my husband, I found he had some resignation and slight anger about my refusal in the early days of our marriage. In a way, I was suppressing my husband's sexual demands but thought we were not having sex by mutual agreement. I thought I was respected because there was almost no coercion when I consciously avoided or said no, but that was only my perception. Although I thought we were equal, there were many conversations that were not equal. I used to think sex was a big deal, but now, like watching dramas, movies, or reading books, sex is just one of those things.

=Usually, fathers with daughters are said to become feminists, but both of you are mothers of sons. What are your views on the perception that men may be discriminated against because of feminism?

Lee Seong-gyeong I don't understand why feminism is attacked that way. Husbands say, "My son is being oppressed; do I have to teach him feminism?" Men living in gender-equal countries have higher happiness indices. These are countries where relationships at home and between men and women in society are equal. When men stop seeing things from a male-centered perspective and learn and communicate from women's perspectives, a path to happier living opens. Strengthening male-centered patriarchy is not good for men. Men are responsible for wage labor and find it hard to escape gender role stereotypes. Feminists and feminist perspectives aim to improve this. They advocate earning together and sharing childcare. Isn't it better to earn 5 million won each as a couple than one person earning 10 million won alone and increase the total happiness?

Married women find it difficult to be away from home during the evening. There is no time to exercise or read books. Some deliberately make time to climb mountains or walk along the Han River. Members of Buneomi are taking a commemorative photo after climbing Inwangsan. (Provided by Buneomi)

Eun-ju The problem is mothers. Mothers are not free from patriarchy, including mothers-in-law. I have never once thought my son would be disadvantaged. Because I can offer my child more life choices and possibilities. We live in a freer era than when male nurses were banned. Feminism also gives freedom to husbands. It is very oppressive, and many things could not be tried before, but now they are possible. It is very sad if people worry about my son growing up. To prevent lonely deaths in their 50s, policies should focus on enabling young men in their teens and twenties to cook for themselves and develop self-care abilities, not on women providing care. It should be a society where mothers can discipline their sons to eat a proper meal, not complain that daughters-in-law do not cook. I am more worried that my child might become a perpetrator. I fear he might unknowingly engage in misogynistic words or actions influenced by social atmosphere.

=What do you think feminism is?

Lee Seong-gyeong I think it is a language with the power to consider living well together and find ways for no one to live unfairly. Feminism is often thought to benefit only women and disadvantage men, but that is not true at all. Buneomi also holds couple meetings, and when wives' satisfaction increases through equal and balanced relationships, the relationship improves. When the total amount increases, the happiness index within the family rises. It is a misunderstanding to think that a wife is pitiful because she is a feminist or that being a feminist is grounds for divorce. Studying can lead to a much happier married life. I feel this through experience.

Eun-ju I think feminism is about everyone being respected for whatever choices they make. Whether one has a cesarean or natural birth, as long as they have sufficient information and their choice is respected. Whether one marries or not, if they choose marriage because they think it is necessary and take responsibility, that is a feminist choice. Conversely, if someone has thoroughly considered not marrying and decides not to marry based on beliefs and values, that feminism belongs to that person. It should be a society where one's will and agency are respected. Feminism is not about cutting hair short or not wearing makeup. Of course, makeup is socially learned as beauty, but if one wants to wear makeup after reconsideration, forbidding it is oppression. Our society imposes too much intervention and stereotyped talk. Feminism is an attitude toward life, a fundamental basis when deciding thoughts, directions, or values. It makes one think a lot about whether they are happy, whether they made the choice with proper knowledge, and whether they have the right to choose. Saying that single women not marrying is feminist is because of their situation. If asked whether married women have no right to talk about feminism, I simply say I am talking about my feminism. There are tens of thousands of feminisms in the world, but fundamentally, it is about making choices that satisfy and make oneself happy as oneself.