[So Jongseop's Sokterview] Lee Junseok "Resolve Yongsan Totalitarianism First"

"If Things Continue Like This, We Will Suffer a Crushing Defeat in Next Year's General Election in the Capital Area"
"Thinking About Ways to Prevent Bad People from Succeeding"
"Politics Is About Raising and Solving Social Issues"

Since the arrest warrant for Lee Jae-myung, leader of the Democratic Party of Korea, was dismissed, the instability within the People Power Party has increased. The ‘Lee Jae-myung arrest’ effort came to nothing, weakening the Democratic Party’s centripetal force. Meanwhile, the internal and external assaults on the ruling party’s core have intensified. The internal power struggle over the general election nominations within the ruling party has begun in earnest.

One of the key figures at the center of this situation is former People Power Party leader Lee Jun-seok. He is increasingly raising the level of criticism. He is a politician with the destructive power to shake up the general election landscape. He said, “I am looking at everything from zero base, including leaving the party.” Although it currently seems like a power struggle, the possibility of it materializing depending on the situation cannot be ruled out. On the afternoon of the 27th at 5 p.m., I met the ‘controversial politician’ former leader Lee at an office in Gangseo-gu, Seoul, for an hour and a half. He seemed to have many things weighing on his heart and said he would stay home during Chuseok to make ‘Chuseok plans.’ This is why his future moves are drawing more attention.

Former People Power Party leader Lee Jun-seok criticized the 'Yun Hae-kwan' faction, saying, "I hope bad people do not succeed." Photo by Hyunmin Kim kimhyun81@

Two First Thoughts That Came into My Life’s Trajectory: "I Hope Bad People Don’t Succeed, I Hope I Don’t Become Like That"

What do you mainly think about these days?

Beavers. There is a YouTube video with several million views where beavers build a dam, but the beaver keepers keep breaking it down. After the beaver builds the dam and goes to play, it finds its dam destroyed and builds it again, only for the keepers to break it down repeatedly. The keepers say they do this to train the beavers to build dams.

I am running for election in the Seoul metropolitan area for the fourth time, and the current state of the conservative party is like this. Whenever they polish something a little, it gets destroyed repeatedly. It feels like they are repeating what they did in the past. There is a sense of d?j? vu. Somehow, I thought I had laid the groundwork to win the metropolitan area election when I took on the party leadership, but within just over a year, everything was destroyed...

Why do you think it turned out that way?

In the 2016 National Assembly election, the Democratic Party was very lucky. When leader Ahn Cheol-soo took all the old power forces from Honam and formed a party, the Democratic Party suddenly became a metropolitan-centered party. That has been the driving force behind the Democratic Party for about eight years now. They also did a lot of membership doubling campaigns. The Democratic Party now has about three times as many paying members as we do.

As the Democratic Party transformed into a metropolitan party, the public sentiment in the metropolitan area became the most important in the party convention. I think it was a coincidence that this system was established, but since then, the Democratic Party’s strength has come from the metropolitan area.

But for us, year after year, how should I put it? People who only look out for themselves and pull the party to the right, those south of the Sobaek mountain range or east of the Taebaek mountain range, are all causing problems. Even though the arrest warrant for Lee Jae-myung was dismissed, if you combine the words of the so-called Ulsan leader, Daegu floor leader, and East Sea secretary-general, aren’t they saying they will fight the judiciary again? I just cannot believe this way of thinking. After doing this, they will tell those running in the metropolitan area to dedicate themselves to the party again.

I hope a world where such people laugh and swagger does not come. Until now, I was only interested in the universal task of expanding conservatism, but my thoughts have changed recently. Now, I also hope that people who destroy the house every day after it is built do not succeed.

It sounds like you are saying a conservative power replacement is necessary.

At least I hope those people don’t succeed. Even during the presidential election, they just sat and criticized internally. They held party meetings to try to remove the party leader... After coming to power, they lived from a factional perspective, calling themselves pro-Yoon or Yoon core members, didn’t they?

It seems you are thinking of taking some action for that.

In my life, I have never cared about others’ lives. I thought it was important to work hard, set an example, achieve results, and create a virtuous cycle where the organization I belong to benefits. But now, that is no longer the case.

Are you just thinking about it, or are you preparing to act?

I am thinking a lot. How to prevent bad people from succeeding... There are two things. I hope bad people don’t succeed, and I hope I don’t become like that. These two thoughts have recently come into my life’s trajectory for the first time.

"The President Emphasizes Ideology Because He Lacks Confidence in Livelihood Items"

This is a big change and seems to foreshadow many things... How do you evaluate the Yoon Seok-youl administration, which has been in office for 1 year and 5 months?

When it was reported that the president was going to Daegu Seomun Market either at the beginning of this year or the end of last year, I said, ‘The person who scheduled that is truly a sycophant.’ Even President Park Geun-hye hesitated to go to Seomun Market near the end of her term. But the president is scheduling such visits from the beginning of his term. Is this a lack of ideas, or typical flattery by sycophants? I want to ask that.

Also, some say the president emphasizes ideology because he watches a lot of YouTube, but that’s not it. It’s because he lacks confidence in livelihood items. That’s why the best thing he can do is investigations, and the cheapest is ideological warfare, so he is going in that direction.

Since it is early in the administration, there may be judgment errors, but it seems he is going through the same process that past presidents went through when being co-opted. When President Roh Moo-hyun took office, many people had new expectations, but in the end, he was co-opted by reports from large corporations and was said to have turned right while signaling left. His aides were called Samsung scholarship students.

The current situation is the same. When the president talks about industrial promotion policies after taking office, there is only one: the semiconductor cluster. Isn’t it obvious which company that is for?

The president is putting considerable effort into diplomacy.

Diplomacy is also risky. When Foreign Minister Park Jin said, ‘We filled half the glass, so Japan will fill the rest,’ I said we should watch because even if we can’t get anything from Japan, we might get something from the U.S.

But it seems nothing has happened yet. The U.S. no longer seems willing to give economically for its allies. It’s the same with Biden and Trump. But we still haven’t adapted our perspective to that. We are still stuck in the old framework.

If you met President Yoon Seok-youl now, what would you want to say?

The basic principle is that there is no credit-based dialogue. Because there is no trust, there is no credit-based dialogue. What one side says and what the other side says are different... What makes it difficult for the president to do politics now is that these experiences are shared by many people, so no one is willing to engage in credit transactions. Even though he is the most powerful politician in South Korea, credit transactions don’t happen, and everything must be done in cash, making great politics impossible in South Korea. At least those who have experienced it once, including myself, think similarly.

If the ruling party does not secure an absolute stable number of seats in next year’s general election, President Yoon will face considerable difficulties both inside and outside.

People who know a little about politics see ridiculous articles flooding out. For example, reports that the party leadership requested a list of about 30 people to be seconded to the presidential office. The party leader Kim Ki-hyun knows that lawmakers supported him in the last party convention because they thought their nominations would be protected, so he asked for the list preemptively? If so, Kim Ki-hyun would have committed an active betrayal, but the Kim I know is not that kind of person. Isn’t it more likely that the presidential office wanted to send the list but worried about interference in nominations, so they said, ‘Since it was requested, we are sending the list’? How childish is that?

Former Representative Lee Jun-seok predicted, "At this rate, the metropolitan area could perform worse than in the last general election." Photo by Kim Hyun-min kimhyun81@

"If Things Continue Like This, People Power Party Will Suffer a Crushing Defeat in the Metropolitan Area in Next Year’s General Election"

Do you expect the People Power Party to suffer a crushing defeat in the metropolitan area in next year’s general election if things continue as they are?

Yes. It could be worse than the last general election when they won 16 seats in the metropolitan area. I have also run elections in Nowon B, but the ruling party is not enjoying any premium at all right now.

What do you mean by ruling party premium?

If the Seoul mayor and the president are from our party, there should be a sense that policy cooperation is working and something is getting done. But Mayor Oh Se-hoon is being checked. I know that. Also, in the last Seoul mayoral election, Mayor Oh had personal vote-getting power and won in all districts, but eight district heads went to the Democratic Party. That shows how weak the talent pool is. Then, at least good talent recruitment should happen to expect results in the next general election, but it looks difficult now.

Is there a possibility the ruling party will launch another purge drive?

There is nothing left to purge now. Even if they touch the former leader Song Young-gil’s money envelope suspicion case, the destructive power won’t be that strong. In fact, the ruling party has achieved some results in this regard. In the meantime, they tried to push out Lee Jun-seok, Yoo Seung-min, Na Kyung-won, and Ahn Cheol-soo to bring someone up and dominate the party hegemony.

It sounds like you are referring to Minister Han Dong-hoon.

From what I’ve seen so far, that’s right. He took quite a hit this time. President Yoon is actually a president who lacks confidence in his own power base more than anyone else. When a president’s approval rating is 50% to 60%, even non-supporters become supporters. That’s the nature of power. But now, he has set categories and plans to eliminate everyone outside them.

How do you predict the Gangseo District mayoral election results?

I predict the People Power Party will lose by an 18% margin. Generously, it’s an 18% difference. Many say the atmosphere is worse than before. This is not just a gut feeling. Comparing the vote share to the number of voters in Gangseo Gap, Eul, and Byeong in the 21st general election, there was exactly a 17.87% difference.

How do you analyze the core reason why the Democratic Party is strong in the metropolitan area?

Most Democratic Party lawmakers in Seoul are either in their second or third term. There must be a big redevelopment issue in every district, so it would be a mistake to think the Democratic Party is weak. If elected, they will likely become chairpersons of the Land, Infrastructure and Transport Committee or the Public Administration and Security Committee. When a first-term or ‘youth belt’ People Power Party candidate faces a Democratic Party second- or third-term lawmaker, it’s common sense who the voters wanting redevelopment will support. The president says ideology is more important than livelihood, but ideology doesn’t build apartments... They really can’t create issues.

The Democratic Party has a relatively solid base in the metropolitan area, and second-term lawmakers are preparing for third terms, which is a big advantage. For example, Hong Ik-pyo, who became the Democratic Party floor leader this time, moved his constituency from Seongdong-gu to Seocho-eul. The Democratic Party forming a ‘metropolitan leadership’ is very dangerous for us.

The arrest warrant for Lee Jae-myung was dismissed. How do you foresee his future moves?

Given this, he will lead the next year’s general election as the party leader. I don’t rate his election command skills highly in terms of quickness, but as his position as a presidential candidate solidifies, he will gain corresponding weight. That is something to be cautious about.

The Yoon administration believed that despite all this chaos, they could push forward with a purge political situation and make Minister Han Dong-hoon a hero to lead the political situation. But both of these collapsed simultaneously this time.

Will the Lee leadership continue?

Lee Jae-myung has many cards to play. He could even retreat a bit and follow the model where former President Moon Jae-in appointed Kim Jong-in as emergency committee chairman. Moon wanted to do it but found it difficult, so he did it through Kim. Even if not that, he has many cards. How richly he can use those cards depends on his ability.

"I’m Afraid Lee Jae-myung Will Bring Out a Third Way" "I Also Think the President Might Form a New Party"

How do you evaluate Lee Jae-myung?

The attention and evaluation he received as a local government head actually stemmed from the special space called Seongnam City. If he had started as mayor of Dongducheon instead of Seongnam, he wouldn’t have come this far. When he was Seongnam mayor, then Gyeonggi Province governor, and rose as a presidential candidate, there was nothing new. Now it depends on whether he can create the next path.

If I am to face him continuously, what scares me is if he brings out something like the ‘Third Way’ that Tony Blair of the UK Labour Party once did. Like the position former Chungnam Governor Ahn Hee-jung showed. I am not afraid of Lee Jae-myung who keeps saying he will keep giving money. Whether Lee can make that transition is very important. We need to watch that going forward.

Is there a possibility of division between pro-Lee and anti-Lee factions in the Democratic Party?

The anti-Lee faction has no justification. Everything is blocked. They will just have to sit down there.

Everything was blocked in an instant.

What about the People Power Party?

The president does so many unexpected things... I’m actually worried that the People Power Party might form a new party. I think that could happen. That’s why I think the president keeps focusing on moving to the right. Even if the 60 lawmakers from the Yeongnam region look shabby to the president, it’s not easy to suggest and nominate dozens of people who can surpass the current lawmakers.

Will the People Power Party fight next year’s general election under Kim Ki-hyun’s leadership?

It’s meaningless. Even in the last general election, leader Hwang Kyo-ahn struggled in Jongno and didn’t play a big role in leading the election. I don’t think Kim Ki-hyun will say he will run again in Ulsan in this situation, and he might have a difficult election himself, so he is likely to have his own problems.

If those holding party positions now show a strong will to go to tough districts in northern Seoul or Gyeonggi Province, they will gain authority. I can’t believe anyone who doesn’t know this would want to lead. Some talk about a ‘youth belt,’ but how ridiculous is that? It’s not even a student soldier belt.

What is your evaluation of Kim Ki-hyun?

Once, while having a meal with Kim Ki-hyun, I said, ‘If you want to be leader after your term, I will help you.’ He has pros and cons, but in terms of stable leadership, he’s not bad. If Kim became leader through alliances or others’ help rather than absolute presidential power, he would be a very different person. Didn’t he trample others to get to the leadership (in Yongsan)? If Kim doesn’t shake that off quickly, he could end up in a strange position.

What about President Yoon?

Recently released recordings revealed hostility toward the People Power Party and that he thought about expelling Lee Jun-seok even before joining the party. I want to ask when he started thinking about why he should become president.

Politicians have a very hard time in the political process. But they continue because they have a dream of what they will do once they overcome this hardship and gain power. Lawmaker Yoo Seung-min said, ‘When I wake up in the morning, I think about why I do politics.’ Without that, it’s hard to do politics properly. If that is unclear, value judgments will keep getting confused. I don’t understand why the president does politics, and most South Koreans probably don’t either.

The former representative said, "I do not understand why the president is involved in politics." Photo by Hyunmin Kim kimhyun81@

"Next Year’s General Election: Looking at Everything from Zero Base, Including Leaving the Party"

Will you run in next year’s general election?

I have no intention of running just to fill a district seat.

Isn’t it natural to run in Nowon B?

I am preparing... In the last general election, I ranked about 3rd or 4th in vote share in Gangbuk. It’s a tough place, but regardless of my ability, I don’t want a world where strange people succeed. I have no intention of helping such people’s lives. If the election atmosphere is truly normal, I will 100% run in Nowon. But if they put YouTubers on the proportional representation list and spread nonsense, I have no reason to help those people. If the overall flow or structure goes that way, I won’t run.

Are the two options of leaving the party or running in a different district completely ruled out, or are they still alive?

I am keeping all options open. I am looking at everything from zero base.

Are you reconsidering your political career so far?

Honestly, during the last presidential and local elections, my health really deteriorated. My vocal cords were almost completely damaged, and now I can’t hit high notes. I used to be able to sing songs at karaoke that I can’t now. I put my body through that much for campaigning, and thinking about what came after... I am considering even leaving the party as an option.

"Politics Is About Early Detection of Social Problems, Raising Issues, and Solving Them"

You entered politics in 2011. What do you think politics is?

A politician should be able to detect South Korea’s problems a little earlier than others and think about them in advance. But sadly, no one is proposing agendas now. For example, some say Lee Jun-seok created gender conflict. That’s absolutely wrong. Gender conflict has existed since 2017-2018. No one was addressing the issue, that’s all.

The issue with Jeonjangyeon (National Solidarity Against Disability Discrimination) is similar. For people commuting on Line 4 in northern Seoul, it has been a three-year problem. Jeonjangyeon has been protesting continuously at Dongdaemun History & Culture Park Station. When the political world tried to address it, they were accused of disability hatred and prevented from dealing with the issue. That is the low level of our political culture.

If politics is a culture where people just wait for opportunities and stab others in the back when someone leads, instead of taking the lead in solving social problems, that must be purified first. Politics is about detecting social problems a little earlier, raising issues, and solving them.

Politics must break inertia. We need to reconsider the view that disabled people are always the weak. While disabled people are generally treated as weak, conversely, are the residents of the northeastern area who take subway Line 4, the target of their struggle, strong? We must judge coldly.

Former Representative Lee Jun-seok said, "Politics is about thinking about social issues and coming up with solutions." Photo by Hyunmin Kim kimhyun81@

Why do you do politics?

As I said in my speech in Gwangju when I ran for the party convention, I was born in 1985, so I have no burden about the 1980 Gwangju Uprising. I started my activities after industrialization and democratization were almost complete, so I am not bound by the old dichotomies. The identity of a person from Sanggye-dong symbolizes the era when people who moved to Seoul in the 1990s somehow bought a house, lived in 20-30 pyeong apartments, and worked hard on public education to raise their children’s social status. At that time, everyone believed that would lead to upward mobility, so they worked hard.

In our generation, that has largely broken down. The confidence that you can buy a house or that studying hard will be rewarded has diminished. Many talked about the Cho Kuk incident, but no one tried to understand why the younger generation was angry. Even conservatives just saw it as an opportunity to criticize the Democratic Party’s double standards and ended there. There has been no effort to propose a new system after ‘Cho Kuk.’

The president suddenly says he will crack down on private education companies... That’s not acceptable. It is important to think about these things first, but no one wants to. I do politics to think about and find solutions to such issues.

"It Is Important to Shake Off Totalitarianism Close to Everyday Life"

That must cause mental stress.

If you see politics as part of social science, it is a process of forming hypotheses and proving whether they are right or wrong. Old election strategies were about winning by dividing regions. Even now, they say they need to capture votes from Chungcheong Province in Gangseo-gu and bring in people like Jeong Jin-seok and Jeong Woo-taek, but when you walk the streets, few recognize them. Those who don’t vote for us here are probably young people, so I don’t understand thinking that way is an election strategy.

The generational encirclement theory and westward policy were good results for me. The same goes for policy. People ask how I can answer everything, but it’s because I think ahead. Politicians should think ahead more than others, but many don’t.

What do you think conservatism is?

Conservatism includes republicanism, liberalism, and more. The president orders the conservative group to fight communist totalitarianism, but totalitarianism within communism exists mainly in China and North Korea. Conservatives always guard against totalitarianism. But those in the center or left of center probably think Yongsan totalitarianism is scarier than communist totalitarianism.

Rather than fighting the concept of communist totalitarianism across the sea, existing north of the Demilitarized Zone, it is important to shake off the totalitarianism close to our everyday lives. Our party has nearly 110 lawmakers, but how can they not say a word and just watch the president? That is Yongsan totalitarianism. I want to say we should resolve that first and stop pointing fingers outside.